Torfaen Councillors will be asked at the September council meeting to accept a motion put by Cllr Tom Gould to freeze their basic allowances, and reduce the extra allowances allocated to the Leader, Deputy Leader, Cabinet Members and all Chairs of Scrutiny Committees by 50%
Cllr Gould says, “We are being constantly told that there will be a tight budget, so it is only right that we set an example to the people we serve” How the vote goes will give us a real indication of the stature of councillors we have.
DISCUSS !
(For information below is a table comparing the allowances given to councillors in Torfaen and Gwynedd . You will note that if the motion is passed then the allowances will be similar in both boroughs. Gwynedd is larger than Torfaen in terms of area, voters and budget)
Councillors Allowances 2007/2008 | Torfaen | Gwynedd |
| Basic | £12,718 | £11,862 |
| Leader | £27,017 | £14,154 |
| Mayor (Chairman in Gwynedd) | £8,105 | £3,523 |
| Cabinet members with portfolios | £13,508 | £5,544 |
| Chair, scrutiny committees | £8,105 | £4,435 |
| Chair, planning, Licensing etc | £8,105 | £2,217 |
| Vice Chairs scrutiny | £0 | £2,217 |
18 comments:
I note that Gwynedd council, a larger council than Torfaen, have allowances for Cabinet Members and Chairs approx 50% of those given in Torfaen . See http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/gwy_doc.asp?cat=3313&doc=15481 .
I accept there is a lot of work in being a councllor but the extra allowances associated with the positions of extra responsibility are ridiculous!
There should be an element of public service in being a councillor, it is not a job. Most councillors are retired and should not need to rely the money. If they work then just being a councillor must take most of their spare time, how much time can they spend on their extra responsibility to justify their extra allowances is beyond me.
Excessive extra allowances are a very expensive way to keep the members concerned loyal to the leadership, not their electors. Is this democracy?
From Cllr Wildgust
I fully support the reduction in Special Allowances. When the Campaign for Democracy is over and Peoples Voice Torfaen hold Cabinet seats and Scrutiny Chairs, we will still support the 50% reduction in Special Allowances.
I would like to inform the reader, that I do not claim any travelling expences for my duties as a councillor. From my current calculations I believe this will have saved the council a minimum of£900 over a 12 month period.
In addition to this I do not claim £15 per month for a broadband service saving the council a further £180 per year.
I do not accept free hospitality from TCBC or claim any meal allowances. I do not know what the value of this saving is but it help save monies.
Regards
Fred
One of my local (labour)councillors is excellent but she held no position of extra responsibility before the last election. However she was as busy and diligent as she could be with her work in the constituency, on committees and with outside bodies. This year she holds a position offering an extra £13000 plus per year.
Is she working harder? Not possible, so why is she paid extra? Is it a reward for her hard work? Probably not.
In normal circumstances it is a reward for loyalty to the party leader and a carrot to keep one loyal. At the present time it could appear to be a position offered because they have no-one else, there being more positions than labour councillors.
The reason we are asking this council to reduce the extra allowance and freeze the basic allowance is simple.
We have been told by the Leader Bob Wellington that they are faced with difficult decisions because of the poor settlement from the WAG. The real truth is that the monies from rented council houses have now been lost and the practice of "robbing Peter to pay Paul" is stopped.
Why should councillors be able to be immune from the deprivations that we have to face.
It would not be to bad if they had skills the were commensurate with the responsibilities. For gods sake one of them can hardly read or write.
This is not going to make me popular, but there I could not care less.
Mr Williams
Are you saying that if Peoples Voice took over in a future election and money was not so tight then you would advocate restoring the current allowances? Is this just a temporary reduction you advocate? Would you be advocating this if you were part of a coalition leading the council at this time? Was it part of your manifesto?
We want to trust our leaders and at present we feel they are more concerned with gaining and retaining their positions and lining their pockets than in looking after the interests of the people of Torfaen. How can Gwynydd councillors accept half the allowances that our councillors demand? Are they better or worse councillors?
I know from experience that some councillors do as little as possible for their basic allowance let alone the extra resposibility. (Not just labour mind you, many non labour councillors have spent years lying low and saying nothing)
A piece of advice, demand a recorded vote and publish it!
Mike j
I am not a councilor therefore am not directly affected by any decision to reduce allowances. But having said that I was the architect of the motion, this is accepted by all PVT councillors. They also will not be partaking of any "free food" and we will continue to fight to reduce the wastage of'Public Money'by 'Public Servants'
If you look at what is happening in local politics, you will see that the only real opposition is Peoples Voice.
As for the term of the reductions, I cannot answer for something that is 3 1/2 years away. It will be very difficult to get this motion through.
We did say on the doorstep that we wished to reduce the junkets and put more money into frontline services. There have been requests from other councillors to get us to reduce our motion fro 50% to 10%which we have totally refused to do.
We will ask for a recorded vote, and rest assured you will know how each councillor voted.
There are councillors sitting on their hands, we will be active in putting them in a position where they are accountable.
Mike, I hope I have answered your questions, they will also be honest ones.
Come back and ask if you feel the need.
Thanks Ian(?)
The way I see it that unless you are openly committed to a permanent reduction in the special resposibility allowances, in line with those in some other councils, then the labour party will simply declare that your motion is just sour grapes, and will justify voting, on block, against it.
If, in agreement with the others in the non labour ranks, you declare that the reduction should be permanent, and give good reasons for that, then the electorate will notice if their labour councillors vote to keep their allowances, and woe betide them at the next election.
Openly demand a free vote, ie that no-one should vote on party/group lines.
Also should not all those reciving additional allowances declare an interest and be excluded from voting?
Mike
I am in agreement with you on this, we will look for a discussion at our next executive meeting. If we can get this through and I know that "turkeys do not vote for chrstmas" then we can look for a 'constitutional change'
Ian Williams said
"If you look at what is happening in local politics, you will see that the only real opposition is Peoples Voice."
The people of Torfaen are fed up with party politics, why would we want to replace the labour party with a party that consists mainly of ex labour people? (Having said that in the short term you are a force for change, and change is what we desperately need)
Anyway what is the petition for democracy all about? I thought it was about reducing the overwealming influence of any one particular party.
Hopefully the petition if accepted would mean that people are appointed to positions on merit, not on their loyaly to one party/leader.
I agree, people are 'fed up' with party politics, especially when all its energies are devoted to "self interest" we are not in it for ourselves. This party was formed to try to take away this "self interest" and replace it with a community based progam that allows people to feel that it is their interests that are paramount.
Would you believe that this council does not have 'Economic Regeneration' has a core priority, they do not understand the link between it and its stated priorities is greater 'Economic Activity'
The situation with politics is that groups are always the dominent force, to change that will probaly be an impossibility. Evan if you vote 'Independant' they will form an alliance among themselves, our with another group. Independants on their own can only change things if the political landscape allows this.
The thing about all this is I believe a very basic simplistic one, parties need to ensure that the promises made in the process of electioneering are kept. People feel dis-enfranchised from the political process because of "self serving" politicians.
Can I say gray train, or will I be sued by Cunningham?
LOL
Get off your noses out of the trough and earn your money Torfaen Councillors.
When it comes to wasting money, what about the illegal white elephant built for Cllr (Now ex Cllr) Davies at an estimated cost to us, the public, of over £50,000!
Legal wrangles caused by Mr Davies' intransigence and the councils failure to take legal action against him are estimated to have pushed this cost to well over the 100,000 mark!!!
The cost of removal of this white elephant is now being passed on to Bron-Afon but I am challenging that decision. If I fail, it means that the officers responsible for this mess (Now employed by Bron-Afon) will now be paid handsomely for its removal.
It also means that this cost will affect the tenants of Bron-Afon.
Corruption? You decide!
To
Thorn in the side.
I am unaware of the situtaion with regards to Mike Davies and the 50k
Can you please enlighten me.
Ian Williams
W275@aol.com
I am sure of the following:
If the Coalition had got into power they would not be calling for a reduction in allowances.
If the Coalition had got into power they would not be demanding proportionality.
Will these two demands be included in their manifesto for the next election? I think not.
(I tried to ask this on a grumble sheet but couldn't get it to work)
I understand that Blaenavon actually has a voluntary community council, and has always voted to stay this way, not even claiming expenses?
How do I confirm this please? Apparently Pontypool and Cwmbran community Councillors get an allowance of a few thousand pounds every years, plus expenses. How can I find out about this? Why is it different for them? What about other Boroughs?
Possibly we should get Bleanavon councillors to explain why they are happy to volunteer without allowences when others are not, if its true.
to Curious Torfaen Resident
The grumble sheet now works! Sorry!
Your best bet is to ask a Blaenavon Community Councillor. I believe no Community Councillor gets an allowance but they can claim expenses. Has anyone more information?
I have emailed you Ian.
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